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How well do you understand the concept of socialism?

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Author: kk8 Posted: 11 months 8 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    0   2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLAg8a0vCZQ

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   0
You are so right. So many people use the term as some kind of a disease. But then, Reagan made "liberal" as a dirty word too. Yet, what is happening in the United States is part capitalism and part socialism, and it has to be.

Apparently, those on the right tend to fall for such sloganeering without knowing what it really means nor do they find out what it is. Ergo, the likes of Rush Limbaugh can demand $400M. It is sick.

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   0
You are so right. So many people use the term as some kind of a disease. But then, Reagan made "liberal" as a dirty word too. Yet, what is happening in the United States is part capitalism and part socialism, and it has to be.

Apparently, those on the right tend to fall for such sloganeering without knowing what it really means nor do they find out what it is. Ergo, the likes of Rush Limbaugh can demand $400M. It is sick.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   5
Socialism is a term that is overused and abused by the right to attack anything that is different from free market capitalism.

Both pure socialism and pure capitalism are abusive and faulty systems. The key is to govern by providing a maximum of freedom from abuses by other individuals (why we have laws against, for example, murder and theft), by organizations of individuals (corporations, gangs, mobs) and by the government itself.

Some extremists want to have a pure Socialist system with is abusive and dangerous to freedom. And some extremists want to have a pure Free Market Capitalist system which is abusive and dangerous to freedom.

Fortunately in this country we have few Socialists. Unfortunately, we have far too many extremists on the other side who would allow corporate powers to rule from the right.

The Nazi national socialism was not real socialism. It was more of the latter form of extremism. Mussolini called it "corporate socialism".

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    10   6
Well, here we are having a debate about political ideals and not once have I pointed fingers at any political party. So much Tampa (no surprise) for your inability to participate in a constructive debate. You even find a way to "blame republicans (the right)" for an ideal which you say does not exist. That's telling.

All systems will have abuses which I commented on and I'm glad to see you did too. The question is which is more likely to take away liberty... I say that when the individual (the capatilist) is compromised - when the state is more powerful than the individual, so goes the nation. Evidence, Cuba.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    3   3
Cuba, Russia, China were all feudal societies where the people had no freedom before Communism. Communism did not give them any more freedom, except for the freedom not to starve to death.

You cannot compare any of those countries to America. None of those countries had a large middle class. None was industrial. They were all agricultural dictatorships. At least Communism brought them into the industrial age - sort of. I can't say that the Russians under Stalin had any more or less freedom than they had under the Czar, or China under the Emperor or Cuba under Batista. All were evil regimes both before and after.

But KK8 is a right wing radical who has tagged President Obama's pragmatic economic plans with the label "socialist."

President Obama's Republican opponents in the election called him a "socialist". He is not. Far from it.

Do you imagine that this debate you think you are having, exists in a non-partisan bubble?

You say you have not pointed fingers at any political party. Then what the hell is Ronald Reagan doing in your photo? Yeah, you are not partisan. Sure.

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    1   0
Yeah, I forgot about that. Mao Tse Dong may not have more freedom to the Chinese but he did not let them starve nor eat barks or sell their infant sons and daughters.

Anybody who wishes our president to fail is a traitor, period. It is not matter of socialism or capitalism. It is a matter of survival. As far as I can tell, our president is doing everything he can and I doubt he cares which ism will get him there.

The real question is to ask ourselves how we got here after 8 years of free-wheeling capitalism and aggressive militarism.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    9   5
My understanding is that the collective is greater (more worthy) than the individual and that the individual's rights are second to the "common good." The individual's rights such as property ownership, the right to retain earnings, and free speech are subjugated to the state.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   7
That is correct clearly, as I mentioned, look at the deff. of Capitalism, that I posted, look where it says:

''Each person OWNS his or her labor.''

To me,,that is the most significant difference.

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Author: enoch Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    8   6
Clearly socialism has a fundamentally flawed view of human nature. That is the biggest reason it hasn't worked and cannot ever work.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   7
enoch,,,''fundamentally flawed'',,that says it pal.

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Author: kk8 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   8
That was perfect, clearly.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    8   6
Great buzzbite kk - I love this topic!

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   8
clearly, I just love, love the way you get it on! Debating, that is. It is great to read your post.
Thanks

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    4   7
CHANGED,,SLOW DOWN,,,YOU HERE,,you still did not get that message.

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   7
I am trying to slow down.............I am getting sleepy. I will go now, I have so many msgs I need to delete some. go there

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    6   7
You are too generous! I love a good debate!

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   7
I know, and I love reading them. Go look at my recent post about the Kennedy's

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    5   6
This was great,kk. This was the kind of clear, interesting, bites we missed when you were gone. They just dont make them any better Dear*

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    4   3
CC----don't confuse socialism with communism which you clearly are...but saying that about socialism is like saying India is capitalist,,dream..for eg..in India everyman and woman for themselves they have no social safety nets very few government programs such as schools, hospitals and infrastructure ..the government doesn't interfere with industry or business with regulation on environment and consumer protection..It seems like you guys on the right are pushing for that kind of government but be careful for what you wish for

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    1   4
After socialism, comes communism!
I am just so bummed out!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    1   3
O.K.,,Magill,,,I wish you to go away--*poof*

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Author: gabewest Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   6
socialism leads to communism

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    3   3
So, you agree with Karl Marx, who said that;

Capitalism leads to socialism, and socialism leads to communism, so, in effect, capitalism leads to communism.

I don't agree with you or Marx. Marx predicted that countries like America or Germany would have communist revolutions.

He dismissed countries like Russia and China, because they wre feudalistic agricultural societies. He expected communism to rise up from an oppressed but educated working class.

Instead unions came into being and helped alleviate many of the problems that working people faced. Democratic countries passed labor laws to protect working people and ensure fair wages and employment practices. So there was no need. Democracies addressed the negative excesses of capitalism so the negative excesses of communism did not arise. Thank God for democracy.

We still have people, however, who think that every attempt to provide protection for working people is somehow socialist. But it is those very protections that make socialism unnecessary.

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   1
It appears that 80% responded "very well." Based on the posts I have seen here, either they are lying or they don't know beans about socialism.

Relying on Rush Limbaugh for such information is very dangeours, amigo.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    5   7
Hi meridian,,long time no see. How you doin buddy.

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society to attain such status. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended,although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]

Seems,,In socialism,,,they will tell ME my worth,,Who is this,,,,,,THEY!!
Could it be the same Government that has a horrible record of judging anything??
Could it be the same Government that runs everything they touch into a Tower of paper work, with the the poorest production possible??
Could it be the same Government that kills incentive, and rewards mediocrecy.
Could it be the same Government that spends thousands of dollars on a toilet seat,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THAT GOVERNMENT??

mmmmmmmm,,,,NO THANKS!

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    7   4
I am surprised at how little you know how things work flounder,,,i was convinced you knew more than you just displayed to all of us..your imaginations runs out of control what fiction good bed time story demonizing the evil socialist

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    5   7
Mag,,why dont you write to Wikipedia,,it is their definition, not in it's entirety,,a bit to long.
However,,that's their quote,,not mine.

Maybe, You should be surprised,,how little you know,,,or like I said,,write them and straighten them out. I'm sure they will be all---''ears''

I know someone that is.

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    8   5
awwww flounder you see socialism in your cheerios If it's the democrats idea its socialism,,you'd be happy in a place without rule of law ,,ran by the don taxation with out representation hey wait a minute we had that and rebelled ..do they come dumber than you

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    6   7
magill,,,they must come dumber than I,,Your here aren't you!

magill, read the part that says:

''Each person owns his or her own labor''

I dont want my labor owned magill, we tried that too-------Remember?

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   1
You are fairly accurate on socialism, that is if you insist on taking the extreme.

Let me see whether I can be equally articulate on capitalism.

Capitalism is where the golden rule applies:
"The one who has the gold rules."

Taking the extreme as you did on socialism, capitalism is where the wealth is concentrated to a few eletes, thereby the wealth is completely unbalanced. There are billionaires and there are homeless. Where did the wealthy get their wealth? Of course, from those who don' have much. Do you really think the billionaires of today became that because of their hard work?

If you look at the world, there are socialist countries who are terrible. But then there are those who take care of citizens very well.

There are capitalist countries that are horrible, especially in the third world, and then there are capitalist countries that do quite well.

The point I am trying to make is that the thesis that "capitalism is good and socialism is evil" theory does not work. It is just slogan that the likes of Rush Limbaugh puts out to further his cause and the likes of 60% of the people here swallow it all.

Paraphrasing President Obama, whom I am sure you would like to call by other derogatory name, it is not socialism or capitalism that matters. It is how it is applied to our society. In other words, what we need is an action, not a slogan.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    9   5
Captitalism is not "the one with the gold rules."

A Capitalist can be poor.

It's about the ability to enter into a free market, with free will and without undue restraints, and have the opportunity to earn.

Earnings are not a given and are not a right. It's the FREE market.

Fundamentally, it's that human beings are naturally motivated and that a balanced system of production and exchange based on mutual benefit emerges. Laissez-faire (French for, allow to pass or let go).

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Author: kk8 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    5   9
well said clearly!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   8
Dear meridian,,thank you for your interesting comment.
However,,How did you get the idea that the definition given is evil. That definition is from Wikipedia, it is not evil, it is the definition. So perhaps to you socialisim in it's own definition is evil.
I see you gave your own definition of Capitalism,,,You seem to make it evil. Lets look at the actual definition. I found one area most interesting.


Capitalism is an economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth, are privately owned and controlled rather than commonly, publicly, or state-owned and controlled.[1][2] In capitalism, the land, labor, and capital are owned, operated, and traded by private individuals or corporations,[3][4] and investments, distribution, income, production, pricing and supply of goods, commodities and services are primarily determined by voluntary private decision in a market economy largely free of government intervention.[5][6] A distinguishing feature of capitalism is that each person owns his or her own labor and therefore is allowed to sell the use of it to employers.[3][7] In a "capitalist state", private rights and property relations are protected by the rule of law of a limited regulatory framework.[8][9] In the modern capitalist state, legislative action is confined to defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market,[8][9] though the state may provide some public goods and infrastructure.[10]


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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    7   8
Meridian,,,Just a note,,Look at the part that says

''Each person OWNS his own labor, and therefore is allowed to sell the use of it to employers''

I like that part,,,I want to OWN my own labor,,,dont you meridian??
Anything else is actually slavery!!

You can keep a government that wants to own my labor,,,,I believe that was tried here once before. We fought against it,,and won.

We will fight again.

flounder

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    8   6
There you go flounder - now you got it nailed. No one and no entity should control your labor (though via taxes, the federal and state governments own part of it.)

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    4   8
clearly,,,,,NOBODY is owning my labor, NOBODY.

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    9   1
I don't disagree with you on priciple. Unfortunately, I have never seen a capitalism, or socialism for that matter, that works the way it says it would.

Capitalism is great in priciple. Unfortunately, human are greedy in nature and some will eventually try to overpower the others by whatever means necessary. The current financial crisis is pricely because of that.

That's where the government comes in. Theoretically, the government represents the people and therefore plays the roll of a cop to make sure that the "capitalism" is played fairly.

Unfortuanely again, the same government who is supposed to be an arbitrator also can and and does corrupt, and that adds the problem.

Do I have an answer? Absolutely not. I dislike socialism as much as you do. However, the capitalism I have seen in the las t8 years is not something I like either.

Anyway, thank you for carrying an intelligent conversation, rather than sloganeering others are doing even in this thread.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    6   4
I see your point. But I don't think we punish the many for the sins of a few. There will always be people to take advantage of the "system" no matter what that system is (whether financial gurus or politicians and pork or the renegade employee that embezzels).

Consider all the companies, small and large, that operate fairly - that's the majority of "capitalists" in our country and is why our country is so great. From the guy with a lawn service, to the guy who invented the MRI, to the woman who manufactures bandaids and medical tape.

And thanks for seeing in general (except for TampaSurvey who deserves some vitrol) I try to be civil and put forth an argument, versus whining or name calling. Likewise to you.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   3
meridian,,I enjoyed reading that. You make a fine and interesting read, sorry I'm a bit late with this post.
Agreed,,there are problems in all forms of government, however you have to start somewhere,,dont you?
Given the choice I would lean toward Capitalism, and yes the last number of years have not been our best,,for sure.
We argue here at buzz,,back and fourth, whos fault it is, I am of the opinion,,it's a draw.
meridian,,I dont dislike Obama, and I dont call him horrid names, a little light teasing, that's it.
I hate the name calling here, sometimes you have to answer in same. I even try to avoid that, with the exception of my friend magill, the two of us enjoy it.

I dont think the last 18 years is a complete disaster, we all know this system runs in cycles,,boy!!,,how many times we heard that,,huh?
That said,,no doubt the greed has gotten to new Heights,,My God,,Obama has truoble holding on to some choices,,[not that any other party is better,,their not],,it's so bad, we have to keep some crooks on board,,how bad is that!!!,,wow!!
The problem I have with Obama is the same problem, I have with the far right. Let me correct that,,same problem with any party to far off center---that's better. I am for fiscal responsibility, with moderate conservative ideals---Oh man meridian,,every time one describes ones political Tag,,,,it gets, l o n g e r.

What I see in Obama is a very liberal individual, trying to reach out to the right,,and pull them left. I think he's going for too much real estate,,
His agenda is obvious, however with his popularity he feels he can stiff arm his way to a thinly vailed attempt to seem nonpartisan.
In short, it aint working. The repubs will watch him spend and waste, knowing nothing will get done really, that will be attributed to him,,at least not in four years. We will just go deeper in debt.
Hell,, give me a thousand credit cards, and I can look equally as prosperous.
One thing though, the public only looks at today, and if his credit cards hold up, he may get that four extra years,,dont you think??
This could backfire on the repubs.
I think Obama is hoping that the cycle spends itself out, and things will shape up on there own. We shall see.

No Pal,,I dont have the answer either, I do believe had Bush been watching the mortgage situation closer, this may not have happened, orrrrrr,,if the housing market was left alone--way back when--18 years sounds good, this would not have happened either.
The only answer I have is-----leave it alone,,clean up the crooks, and let the system we have created from the start,,work.
We both know this spending is comouflage, so people feel something is being done.
No doubt,,the poor need help, and should not be ignored.
That's it meridian,,,that's all I got buddy.

Now you go out there and spend, O.K.-HA!!

flounder

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    4   1
flounder wow did you eat a reasonable pill today ,,did Lincoln visit you in your dreams last night and set you straight..but excellent post ,,good job

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    3   3
mag,,I had whole wheat bread with my eggs!

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    5   5
''Each person OWNS his own labor, and therefore is allowed to sell the use of it to employers''

In which case the employers now own his labor. So, in a free market, you own your own labor until you get a job, after which you sell your labor to your boss. Sounds a little like slavery, doesn't it.

But slavery flourished under capitalism.

What makes me marvel is the way that conservatives decry democracy because democracy leads to anarchy. They are adamant that we cannot have pure direct democracy because that leads to abuses. So we set up a republic.

These same people then argue that an unrestricted free market will always balance itself out and needs no regulation. They argue that any regulation is "socialism" and a bad thing.

Somehow they miss the contradiction.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    6   5
Yes, you sell it to the highest bidder - the one with the best pay and benefits or work environment (or whaterver your priority). If you don't like that employer you move on. Slavery is being captive to one entity - in our system we have the freedom to choose when, where, and who.

And more importantly, we have the option to work for ourselves and to invent new products and companies.

In socialism (this buzz topic), the individual is subjugated to the sate - that's slavery.


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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   3
Clearly,,,I was going to answer Tampa,,You stole it------THANK GOD!!

Tampa is smarter than that statement she made, as you pointed out, You dont like it,,,move on---or, open your own business, now what would stop you? , oh wait I know what would stop you-----Socialism!

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    3   3
What would stop most people is economic conditions that prevent them from being able to move or change jobs. When jobs are scarce, people stick with whatever they have.

Why do you think so many people labored for so many years in mines and in sweatshops without unions or government regulations to protect them? Were they really free to just move somewhere else, to get a different job?

When a man has a family to feed, what opportunites does he have?

In the 1930s many people did what you describe. They did not like their lives, so they moved. When the drought hit in the middle of the depression in Oklahoma and throughout the South, hundreds of thousands packed up and moved. Did you read "The Grapes of Wrath" or see the movie?

So, when you let og of the ideology and look at how people really live, it isn't so great any more.

But, regulated capitalism is still better than any other system, just as republican democracy (no relation to the political party that uses the same name) is better than any other.

What I wonder about is why so many of you still oppose any and all regulation of capitalism.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   3
Tampa,,baby,,You must realize there is no need to panic,,Bush wanted what he wanted, and rang the bell of fear--Obama critizised!

Then Obama did the same thing--he's crtizised!

Everybody is screaming wolf!!,,perhaps this thing is no puppy,,however it is far from,

Lets change the whole system!!

That's the way I see it, the left won, they have a chance to change America to their idea of America,,and want to pounce on it.
So Obama screams man overboard, and the left hopes everybody falls in line.

Hell,,he figures Bush got away with it,,[and he did],,,why shouldn't we!

I say,,,woooooooooooooe nelly,,calm down, and a great deal of people feel the same way.

Now Tampa,,when you say regulation to a free society,,that darn near opens that crack in the liberty bell. Why are we in this country Tampa?, to be regulated?,,to have our labor owned by the government?
Again, I say,,wooooooooooooooe nelly,,hold on one cotton picken minute there partner.

No need to panic, just because our two parties got it wrong, epecially when a downward turn of the economy was expected to degree any way.

I see this as hard times Tampa, and some casualties will be had. However there is no reason to go off half cocked.
Look at the pkg., that tells you right there we are not in major straights.
If you were the government, would you be spending money you dont have, if it were really that serious????,,,NO WAY!

That package could easilly be cut in half, IF WE HAD TO. We dont,,so they are spending for the things the left has wanted for a long time.

Bush got his cut,,Obama and the crew want theirs, it's understandable.

However is a change to a system that has worked for the most part warrented?

I say no,,,,and a great deal of educated people agree.
I tell you this Tampa,, if this country does go through a major change by Obama, it will be because the average tax payer does not understand what's going on,,not really.

They will though, given time. That's when the tide will shift.

Help the poor,,and keep a wait and see on the economy,,with some job stimulas, That' my opinion.

Good talkin Tampa
flounder

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    2   3
"Now Tampa,,when you say regulation to a free society,,that darn near opens that crack in the liberty bell. Why are we in this country Tampa?, to be regulated?,,to have our labor owned by the government?"

Now there's a non sequitor if ever I saw one.

"Regulation" somehow mystically segues into "have our labor owned by the government."

Huh? How did regulation turn into having our labor owned by the government?

Or are you speaking as a capitalist who owns the labor of your workers? You seem to think that the employer owns the employees, or at least owns their labor, and that government has no right to tell management what to do with their employees. Even slavery had some laws about what an owner could do to his slaves.

Do you advocate pure anarchy? No laws at all.

This country was founded as a country of laws. All laws are regulations.

What makes you think that people need laws but businesses do not? Do the people who run businesses suddenly become saints who need no oversight? While the people who work for these saints are the unwashed masses who cannot be trusted and so have to be controlled?

Why does business get to be exempt from regulation? Don't we need laws to ensure that we are all protected from criminal activity? And don't we, as a society, get to decide what is legal and acceptable behavior on the part of both individuals and businesses?

Or is "society" just another "socialist" term to you?


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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    7   5
you just put your own spin to everything and theory's but in the real world where i live it's just word's the practice is a different thing you just don't understand with your lack of abstract thinking ,,to long under artificial lights have done brain damage your confused on the reality's

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    4   7
MAGILL,,,,HUH???

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Author: kk8 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    4   9
Hey flounder, I'm really going to miss that, how about you? Capitalism tha is. Also, I just heard that Obama has appointed a blog czar. I guess that will come in handy once they pass the fairness doctrine, so I guess I'm gonna miss you too!!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    3   4
kk,,,I dont like this one bit,,no sir. Do you think we may be in a sense of false panic?
I dont, I think the worst thing that could happen,,is not the spending, we are stuck with that, it's the borders kk.
If this guy open's the borders,,,,,,,forget it, our country is gone.
It would be the end of us. Not only would the culture change significantly ,[and for the worse],,the taxes would go sky high to take care of people that should not be here in the first place. Not to mention the crime.
I'll build a big house on a hill, with gun torrents,,

I'll be a recluse,,that's me---recluse flounder. Nothing but my guns and religion, to keep my family safe.
Sure the new people will assimilate, in about fifty or sixty years, our prosperty will have been drained up by then anyway.
The same thing they did to their country, they will do to ours.

You, changed and the rest of the guys can visit me kk,,hell, move in.
The rest of the people can all take showers at the fire Hydrants for all I care. If they let this happen,,they deserve it.

Hoot
flounder***

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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kk, flounder and all the rest of us. This means SECRET SERVICE WILL BE knocking at the door!
I am so bummed out!

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Author: kk8 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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I read your comment meridian, now answer mine if you would. Where is there a socialist country that treats there citizens "very well", now you did say "very well" remember.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Hey,,kk,,I love the flag icon, I did not like the other one. I know you and the other ladies are very pretty, so it does not go down well when I see your name, and a clown or something next to it.
I know,,you can yell at me. Call me a pig I dont care. Cant help it, I think women are something of beauty, even though I cant see you,,I see a pretty kk, smart and pretty,,something wrong with that?
Anyway ,,the flag is real nice, and is always appropriate.

bye
flounder

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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you just focus on that flounder ya we liberals want your labour it's a big conspiracy if i were you i wouldn't go to sleep were coming to get you ha ha ha ooooooooooooo flounder

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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magill,,,,focus on what????,,,You didn't say anything.

Mag,,,You starting to sound like Obama.@@@@@@@@@@@@@

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Author: THEDUKE1 Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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obama is teaching us all.

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Author: DocRock Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Politics Explained



FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.

PURE SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all of the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.

BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and put them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and eggs as the regulations say you need.

FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them and sells you the milk.

PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

RUSSIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

CAMBODIAN COMMUNISM: You have two cows. The government takes both of them and shoots you.

DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

PURE ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to take the cows and kill you.

LIBERTARIAN/ANARCHO-CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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That was very interesting DocRock.... Thank you for that....

Jollee

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hey doc,,very good pal, shows your thinking,,excellent!!!

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Author: meridian Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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That's as good as I have seen.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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CAPITALISM: You own two cows. Wal Mart buys a billion cows from China and gives milk away as a loss leader until you go out of business. So you get a job sweeping up at Wal Mart. Then they discover melamine in the Chinese milk, but it is too late, you already lost the farm.

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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It's not a good word, or concept.... It would be a sad day for America.....

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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hello jolleeGOP,,,,,You look lovely today. oh,,and yes,,it would be a very sad day.
Seriously,,I think I would go underground and fight it.
I bet rightmind would too. What am I saying,,,he'd drag me.

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Ya'll try to keep it up!

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Changed:

Yep, Yep, Yep......Hip Hip Hooray!

Jollee

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Ok, you all, this one is going to the has an appt. tomorrow. I almost gave it away.
GOODNIGHT EVERYONE.

I HOPE EVERYONE A GOODNIGHT, DID YOU ALL GET THAT? EVERYONE!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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changed,,,it's been up ever since I saw your new hair!!
Trouble is,,,,how do I get it down!

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Author: curler Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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flounder,,,,
Ok I did it I applied for SURVIVOR you know the show........
lol do you think they will take a disabbled person..... I figured what the hell..... if we do become socialist I will need to learn how to survive...........lol.....

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hi cutie AKA Flounder....

I guess I could go underground with you all a few nights per week..... LOL

Did you get my other posts? I guess I can check that myself....

Jollee

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Jollee,,I went to bed early,,I will check them now sweetheart. I dont see rightmind,,had to talk to him,,,are you up now?

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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oh jollee,,and yes,,you can go underground with us, guess we will have to get camouflage outfits.

mmmm,,,,,,Guns,,amo,food,,,what else jollee, what else will we need,,,,cable??

We should be able to tap into their porn stations,
course they will have that stuff running all day,,that's how their kiddies learn about sex.
Then the Government lets them know, when they can have sex, and when to have a orgasim.
The government does that,,cause if they all orgasm at one time,,,it could cause Global warming.
Sort of like the cow thing I guess.
Geeeez,,,sucks to be them!

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Flounder:

He He, yeah all that heavy breathing causes Carbon Dioxide emissions... it will definitely be a detriment to the Ozone...

I will require a pink camo please. I know it's a risk, but what the hell is life without risk.....

Love ya,

Jollee

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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jollee,,,p,p,p,p,p,p,p,pink?,,We are supposed to be Tough looking,,dangerous,,a menace to their Commy suppression,,Pink???
W.T.F.??

What will rightmind say?,,,,,,I know what rightmind will say---#@#@@!##@###@####!!!

Damn girl,,,Look,,I'll compromise,,How about basic green camo-------with High heels and whips for the ladies,,very sheik!!

I think I can sell it to Rightmind, nooooooooo,,I KNOW I CAN SELL IT TO RIGHTMIND!!

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Author: hillbilly Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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........Jollee........ hello friend : )

wouldn't it be great if we were all wealthy capitalists ????

God Bless the USA.... : )

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hi my Hillbilly:

I am workin on it, like I told you...... I share....

Jollee

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Author: hillbilly Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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........Jollee......I know you do , your one of the good gals,,,,,,, : ) I'm going on to bed now...

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hillbilly:

Nighty Night sweet baby..... See you tomorrow.... Stay warm and all that good stuff....

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hillbilly,,,wealthy Capitalists???,,,well,,I'm retired now, so I dont have that much money.

However,,I did the right thing by my children, they are well educated, and have respect for others and my wife and I.
So,,in a way,,yes, I am very wealthy. I f other people would learn to stay a family, and take care of one another, then they would be wealthy too. Dont you think hillbilly?
My kids will be successful, because I did the right thing,,yes they will help others, that need help.
Seems a shame they will have to work harder to take care of the ones that dont help society,,but drain from it.
It will be the same people hillbilly, didn't change before,,wont now. Wanna bet???
If we do go underground,,you can vist us hill, we will share our food with you. Then when the whole damn thing turns to communism, you can join our ranks, if you like.
Bring your friends, they will be welcome.

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Flounder:

Did you see Changed posting regarding Nancy Pedope? find it and read it it is very concerning to people starting retirement....

Jollee

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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JOLLEE,,,No,,I have not,,sounds like it might be good though. Changed is always a good read. Did you see my last post at the house??
Thanks and please get back......woot!

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Flounder:

What a well thought out and gratifying post.... We need to think of these things everyday....

Jollee

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Author: hillbilly Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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.........flounder......wealthy capitalists , isn't that what communist socialists call us Americans ? I use it here because it seems such a contradiction in terms...For a wealthy person , my wallet is sure light... Haw Haw : )

Won't do you any good to go underground, though. You still got to come out & pay your taxes , buy vehicle tags , vehicle inspections , insurance , setra , setra... and then there's always the possibility of getting sick & needing medical care..

No , my friend , we are all just screwed, I'm afraid... Maybe things will get better , a lot of very smart people working real hard 24/7 to make this stimulus plan work , but I don't see anything really changing for the better until the manafacturing sector starts coming back...

Meanwhile , I appreciate the offer of a bowl of soup & a peanut butter sandwhich ( ah , maybe I'll pass on the sandwhich ) Haw Haw

Can I bring my two cows ?

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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The cows are welcome Hill,,ha,ha. I guess your your right in a way, got to come up sometime.

Hill,,let me ask you a question,,,if you were me, and had a chance, to spend the rest of your life in a bunker with oooooooooo,,about nine or ten beautiful women.
All dressed in pink Camo,,high heels, and whips-

..............WOULD YOU TAKE IT?.......................



CHECKMATE, OLD HORNY FRIEND


S.O.B.
flounder

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Author: hillbilly Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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....Flounder..... There was this old guy , about 70 see , and he was out walking one day and came across this magical frog that could talk... The frog said " kiss me , and I'll turn into 9 beautiful women
dressed in pink teddies & high heels & we'll spend the rest of our days & nights making mad , passionate Love...."

Well , the old guy thought about it , and stuck the frog in his pocket... The frog asked him what was his problem ? The old guy said
" at my age , I'd rather have a talking frog."

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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The Stalinist's and the Nazi's permanenty besmirched the nature of socialism and its beliefs and objectives by establishing in most peoples minds their picture of it. This is similar to fundamentalist "christians" broadly establishing that their sickness (which would make Jesus puke) is the face of christianity.

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Author: RONR Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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There is economic socialism & there is political socialism.Some economic socialism is possible w/o political socialism.Complete economic socialism would require political socialism and is simply considered a stop on the road to communism.

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Run on RONR babbles the Nazi line very well. We suppose he sleeps with his jack boots on.

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Author: RONR Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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As usual hypnosis44 puts us all in a trance with his stunning ability to dipute facts with immature inane statements. It is really hilarious when someone is such a mental midget they screw up a put down.Since hitler came out of the national socialist party you must be the one who sleeps in jack boots.I really feel sorry for you and the obvious insecurities you live with.Sleeping in those boots must be very uncomfortable.

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Author: Islambama Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Wow Tampa, can you write ANY thing without blaming a 'republican'? No , I see you can't.

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Bummer bama begins to see the light about her dittocon republicans.

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Islabama..........NO SHE CAN'T. IF YOU FIND ONE, PASTE IT!
Oh, a non-racist one. She is the biggest racist here. I would like to see the both stay out of them!

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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What a setup question.

This is a typical Republican bait and switch trap.

Socialism as exemplified by the former Soviet Union, China, Cuba, is a totalitarian system whereby a dictatorial government controls all capital and markets, and all jobs come from the government. The result is loss of freedom.

But that is not what KKK is asking here. This is just a setup.

We can all agree on the evils of the Soviet/Chinese style system.

The problem is that Republicans think that any attempt to increase wages or to provide for the social welfare is "socialism". And so they label any and all progressive ideas with the same name and then want us all to assume that these too are equally evil.

It is an insidious game, a propaganda technique developed by the Nazis in the 1930s, and employed by the Soviets, Chinese, etc.

There are varying degrees of "socialism". Some are benign and some are harmful.

Republicans have always been opposed to Social Security and unions. But Social Security and unions have been the greatest bulwark against actual socialism. We have come to a nice compromise, a nice center, by providing a social safety net without imposing any of the draconian measures typified by the Socialist countries.

But Republicans don't do subtlety very well.

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Very well stated.

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Author: RONR Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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I am not anti- union but facts are facts that in many instances such as the soviet union socialism grew out of powerful unions.I know many republicans who are not against unions or social security and reps who are in unions, I also have a few of my dem. friends who are against some unions as they exist today. please do not make such broad sweeping generalities.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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That is just not true. Russia has never had powerful unions. They went right from feudalism to socialism/communism. They skipped capitalism and unions all together.

Unions stemmed the tide of socialism in America and much of America by providing people with some say in their working lives.

You can thank unions for the 40 hour work week, weekends off, child labor laws, overtime, health benefits, retirement, Social Security. That is what unions brought on.

But to say that unions led to socialism is simply historically false.

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Hey Tampa - all of the buzzbites posted are to to stimulate a dialog... but only you would be so brilliant as to attack the person. So you would prefer that we not talk about this subject.

What a little brat you are. Take your toys and go home.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 28 days ago
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Socialism sucks the life out of those who desire to work hard and see/enjoy the fruits of their labor. America was built upon and by people who worked hard for what they had; people who also understood that charity has to come from the heart, not government programs that reward laziness and lack of initiative.

I am all for helping the poor or the disabled or any other person whose circumstances are such that they cannot help their situation. There are so many wonderful charities to support.
But please don't tell me that the GOVERNMENT is going to decide that for me by taking my tax dollars and using them for programs or what they therm "charities" that I find unworthy or objectionable.
People need to decide for THEMSELVES where their hard-earned money should go and how it should be spent.
Socialism is bad on so many levels. There's not enough room to spell them all out here.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 28 days ago
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Oh yes, and hypno, tampa et al... I'll await your mean-spirited and nasty response to me, as this is the only way you ever DO reply.
I'd be interested to see if you can bring some intelligent and actually NICE comments to the table.

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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GreatLakes:

I think that is a fair request......

Jollee

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Thanks Jollee, I thought so. But as you can plainly see, hypno could not meet my challenge.
Hope you are well today!!
Here where I live we are getting blown to pieces with the WIND......... WOW!


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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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jollee,,,That's the problem,,,it's fair
oye vey!

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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greatslakesgal-----first ask yourself why we pay taxes,,and than define socialism so many of you call socialism programs for the poor or ones you don't need help with,,but when you benefit personally your all for it,,so i consider the fat cats selective socialist..we can look at bankers ,insurance companies ,all of wall street,auto-makers many businesses of all sorts are selective socialist..but you attack the poor and the week because there easy targets,,,I do not believe you know socialism at all

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Author: danila Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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magill, we do not attack the poor or the weak. We want them to help themselves first and then we will help or wi'll give them a helping hand and they have to stay and survive on their own. I wrote before that I came from a communist country with very socialistic views, I know some will not like I will write. When I was 6 I remember going to the store and buying whatever we wanted from the stores shelves then overnight we were given ration books, you could only get 1 cup of milk per person, 250gr. of bread per day, flour, sugar,oil, butter (250 gr.) you only got them once a month and that if you were lucky enough to be there when the trucks were unloaded. Going to the doctor you had to pay the doctor on the side if you wanted good treatment, when we went to the dentist we had to stop by the pharmacy buy the anestesia serum then go to the dentist and wait for 3-4hr.
The people that were in the parliament were rich, people that lived in the country and had land could grow their own vegetables and animals but at the end of the year they had to pay the goverment with 1/3 of their produce and animals, and on top of that we did pay taxes. Thats good old socialsm for you.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Now, Magill, this is a person who knows her SOCIALISM!!!
Thank you, Danila, for your very interesting, and to most Americans, SHOCKING description of what you had to live through under a socialist regime.
You'll notice that none of the liberals have responded to your post. Wonder why????
Maybe one of THEM could tell us........

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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No, she knows Eastern European culture. How was it before Communism and how is it now after Communism there? Not a whole hell of a lot of difference. The Soviet system was corrupt, in part because of a socialist economy and in part because of a totalitarian government.

But this Buzz Bite is just an attempt to label all progressive idea with the tag "socialist".

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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Tampa,,,mmmmmm,,you may have a point. Progressives do have much in common.

What are the 99% of your bites,,if not to tag the repubs with the label----NAZI

It would seem to me not fair and balanced.

Thanks kk,,,how bout a few more for tampa!

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Author: clearlycurious Posted: 12 months 24 days ago
Author's vote: Somewhat well Rate comment    3   0
This has to be Tampa's most arrogant comment yet and who thought she could be eve more arrogant. I score this one 100% on the TAA (Tampa Arrogant Ass) scale.

You are telling someone (danila) what she knows and does not know as she recited her life experiences? What, were you a frog in her pocket when she was a little girl? How in the world can you claim to know her life better than she does. Un-f-ing believable.

So on the TC (Tampa's Credibility) you got another high score - also 100%

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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hello danila, my name is flounder, we spoke some time ago,,,nice to see you again.

How have you been,,I hope well. Your comments are so interesting. I wish you would post more often.
I know this place is a battle feild, so it's understandable.
Do you keep in touch with people back home, if so, how are things now,,the same??

flounder

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Author: danila Posted: 12 months 21 days ago
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My whole family is here, my husband has his parents there and they are retired they don't want to come over here, so we call them about once a month, the kids write to them. I have not been on this web site lately because we are remodeling the houses, and I just found out that I'm pregnant with twins again and I need to keep my blood pressure under control.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 21 days ago
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God bless you, dear lady. May you and the twins be well!! I hope that your pregnancy goes smoothly. I will remember to say a prayer for you and your babies. Take good care......

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Author: danila Posted: 12 months 21 days ago
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thank you, this is my second twin pregnancy and they were conceived naturally.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 21 days ago
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Well all the best to you!

I know only one other person that has 2 sets of twins, also conceived naturally.

You are doubly blessed, to be sure!

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Once again gaby the great dittocon uses her failed home schooling to support her Nazi propaganda statements.

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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See?? I knew you would not respond with intelligence or niceness. Thank you for proving my point!

By the way, you seem to have it in for home-schoolers, why?
Have they HURT YOU in some way???
Do you not like them because they teach their kids Christianity???
And just so you are aware of this face, neither my kids or myself are home schooled but I have many friends who DO homeschool and those kids are the NICEST, MOST NORMAL, FUN LOVING, SMART BEYOND BELIEF, kids you could ever want to meet.
So, what's your beef with home schooling????

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Author: JolleeGOP Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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GreatLakes:

It would be nice to receive a few non-defensive posts so that civil communications can be obtained....

I dont understand it myself....

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Author: greatlakesgal Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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Me neither, Jollee, but we can always HOPE for some decent conversation from our fellow Americans.

Have a good day!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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jollee-----Hope and change,,,they have it all

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 12 months 28 days ago
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Poor Dittocon KKK thinks he needs a soapbox to show his ignorance - it glows in the dark, no soap box needed. The founders would micturate on him without missing a beat for wasting the American dream.

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 28 days ago
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KK, Fantastic bite.....this is what they need to understand......
I can't wait to see the answers/comments here.

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Author: Towman Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Who is 'they?' Why do you need to make up sides to everything?

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Towman, what are you doing.... following me?
"They" are you. There is ALWAYS two sides. Sometimes three!

"Why do you need" to hunt for me?

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Hello changed,,,how ya do in,,having fun??

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Yes, I just got home and got my my hair cut, 4 inches off. My husband is a little mad. But, Oh well. Tomorrow I will gone until late noon.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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I know about your hair,,,I felt something today,,,it said,,,changed, cut her hair,oooooooooooooooo

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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I should have put it all in a envelope and sent it to you!
It is still past my shoulders, no worries. OKAY!

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Dont tease like that,,do you know what I would have done with it??

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Author: changed Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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Super glue?

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
Author's vote: Very well Rate comment    1   1
noooooooooooooooo,,changed,,I have a full head of hair,,very full.

I would make a small brade, and tie it to my guitar. Not going to tell you what else though, you know why?

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 25 days ago
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I meant braid-----geeeeez!

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Author: MslmObama Posted: 12 months 28 days ago
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Do you know how America came to be? To get out from under oppression. Apathy is putting us there again.

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Author: flounder Posted: 12 months 27 days ago
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mslm,,your so right. This is not like when Clinton was in,,,,right about now,,he looked great!!

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 12 months 26 days ago
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We just got out of eight years of oppression. the worst in modern American history. Bush is out. Hallelujah, praise the Lord!!!

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