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Author: matterofthought Posted: 13 months 7 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   0
Children? You feel the children are at risk?

Ask an abused alter boy about how he feels about gay couples being a threat to him compared to Father Bob.

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Author: RickAdams Posted: 13 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   2
One of the survey results is very strange.

How can 38% believe that gay marriage threatens children?

What is it about two guys getting married that could ever be a threat to children? The guys have most likely already been living together as a couple for many years. So, why is getting a marriage license going to suddenly make them a threat to children?

For those consumed with hysteria, or even mildly concerned, about the issue, let me make this abundantly clear: gay guys are interested only in other gay guys. Period. Anyone else who tells you otherwise does not know gay people but most likely has an agenda to pursue for his or her own gain. And if that lie is being spread by a member of the catholic church, well, they do know something about threats to children -- from their own church's first-hand experience. There's your true threat to children.

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Author: GuyKan Posted: 14 months 1 day ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    0   4
I am not against gay-marriage because I feel "threatened", I am against it as I would be against any sexual perversion, whether it be homosexuality, incest, bestiality or pedophilia.

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Author: RickAdams Posted: 13 months 23 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   2
First, homosexuality is not a sexual perversion.

Second, even without gay marriage, there are millions of gay couples in this country, living just as though they are married. The lack of the ability to obtain a marriage license has not in any way barred or reduced the establishment of gay households throughout the country. So, even if you want to think that homosexuality is a perversion, it will continue to be part of society, as it has been for thousands of years.

Third, you want to talk about sexual perversion? OK, what about all of the perverted sex that straight couples have? If you want to ban marriages based on "perversion", you have to apply it to straight couples who engage in perverted sex, too. And that applies to many straights who engage in incest, bestiality, and pedophilia.

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Author: dive81 Posted: 15 months 2 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   6
God says it is an abomination in his word. So it is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

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Author: RickAdams Posted: 13 months 16 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   1
Your god also says that eating shellfish is an abomination. So why aren't you picketing Red Lobster restaurants?

Your god also says that wearing clothing of mixed fibers -- probably at least one of the garments you're wearing right now given that so many are now made of cotton/poly cloth -- is wrong, as is working on the sabbath (punishable by death, you know), and rotating crops.

Your god does, however, say that it is okay to sell one's daughter into slavery, that owning slaves is perfectly fine, and that sticking an awl in your slave's ear is not only acceptable, but in some cases required. I guess when President Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation he must have really angered your god.

And don't get me started on what your god had to say about divorce -- it far exceeds any commentary about homosexuality. Yet nearly half of all marriages end in divorce, and organized religions are doing nothing to stop it -- nor are those who are divorced being punished in any way. That's probably because the offering plate would start coming up short, and we can't get in the way of religion's pursuit of the dollar.

Finally, it is interesting to note that the Vatican denied and covered up massive amounts of sexual abuse of children (of both sexes) going on throughout the catholic churches. I guess it's just a matter of "do as I say, not as I do" with you christians.

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Author: GuyKan Posted: 13 months 15 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    0   4
It amazes me how people are unable to realize there were 2 sets of laws in the Old Testament. There was ceremonial laws and then there were moral laws. The ceremonial laws were done away with after the coming of The Christ, His sacrifice and His resurrection. The moral laws never changed. Besides, the ceremonial laws were for the Jews only.

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Author: RickAdams Posted: 13 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   2
But the pro-slavery teachings and even the sticking of the awl in a slave's ear are in the New Testament.

Moreover, the supposedly anti-gay parts of the bible -- the "abomination" reference -- appears in the Old Testament, and has been badly misinterpreted. "Abomination" at the time the bible was written referred only to unclean. It is also the term that was used in reference to the eating of shellfish.

And, of course, Jesus said not one word about homosexuality. So, god sends his messiah to spread his word and he forgets to say one word about this?

The bible was hijacked by those who were full of bigotry about those different than themselves. Some things never change.

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Author: Doreen Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   6
This would not ruin my relationship with my god because mine accepts ALL people and does not select only a few. I have noticed from some of the christians on this sight who are against this keep saying that their god is intolerant of alot of people and their ways ( what a sad god ). I am so glad that mine accepts me and others for who they are.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   4
Maybe you just worship a "higher" God.

The God portrayed in the Old Testament was an angry, jealous, and intolerant God. Jesus portrayed God as more tolerant, more loving.

Maybe it was man that changed. I have always liked the idea that the earlier view of God is much like what you might expect from a less civilized people. They needed laws that said "Thou shalt not kill." As humans grew in consciousness, they already knew not to kill and needed to be reminded of the loving side of God and themselves.

Most of the laws laid down in Leviticus are pretty clearly the laws of a nomadic tribal and primitive people. They just were not ready for the Golden Rule.

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Author: GuyKan Posted: 14 months 1 day ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    0   4
Obviously you do not know the God of the Holy Bible. The Bible teaches He is intolerant of sin, in other words He hates sin not sinners.

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Author: trublu Posted: 15 months 11 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   10
Now I don't know what your god says but God has laid down some pretty easy rules to follow.
(1) The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. (2) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Liberals and dumbocrats want to change everything to suit them and their needs.
America does not allow a 13 yeo female to marry an 80 yeo man. Or allow more than one wife (that's a female to all of you).
Why not leave this wicked place and go to whatever places that allows you all to practice your sexual preferences. I don't see anyone leaving town. Wonder why?
But if Tampa, Magil, zoo and the rest want to marry asses, who are we to stop you? We support your right to be asses!

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Author: magill1951 Posted: 15 months 11 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   4
hey trublu keep me out of this gay stuff,,,i haven't commented on any of it,,doesn't concern me,,,i have been married to my wife for 21 years

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    9   3
That is not true. These passages are from Leviticus 18:22 which prohibits the Hebrews from practices performed in the temple of Molech. It is more about not doing anything during worship that is done by that group.

Other passages in Leviticus:

17: 3 What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it without the camp,

17: 4 and hath not brought it unto the door of the tent of meeting, to present it as an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD, blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people.

So, when Sarah Palin shot that Moose, did she present it as an offering before the tabernacle? If not, she should be banished.

And what about this one:

15:25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days not in the time of her impurity, or if she have an issue beyond the time of her impurity; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness she shall be as in the days of her impurity: she is unclean.

15: 28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.

15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtle-doves, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tent of meeting.

Now, do the women you know bring turtle doves to the priest every time they have their period?

And how about this one?

Leviticus 11:7 And the swine, because he parteth the hoof, and is cloven-footed, but cheweth not the cud, he is unclean unto you.

11:8 Of their flesh ye shall not eat, and their carcasses ye shall not touch; they are unclean unto you.

Uh, oh, eating pork is as much of a horrible sin as homosexuality. Even for Easter dinner, I guess.

11:8 Of their flesh ye shall not eat, and their carcasses ye shall not touch; they are unclean unto you.

Lobster, crab and shrimp are out.

Notice that Leviticus has the same punishment for heterosexual adultery, as it does for homosexual activity:

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Won't you miss Rudy and Newt G after you stone them?

Even worse:

Leviticus 20:9 For whatsoever man there be that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

There goes every teenager in America. We have to stone them all.

The Old Testament is filled with horrible rules from the ancient world about slavery and fear and superstition.

Today people like Trublue here and other neo-Christians, pick and choose from these disgusting ancient laws in order to perpetuate their bigotry and hatred of people they do not like.

They want the ancient laws about homosexuality to be codified into modern law, but they conveniently ignore all of the laws from Leviticus that they violate every day.

I have never seen one of them even try to explain why eating lobster is suddenly OK, or why it is OK to elect a repeat adulterer like John McCain but it is not OK for Rosie O'Donnel to marry the woman she loves. (There is nothing in the Bible whatsoever about lesbians, by the way.).






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Author: lonewolf Posted: 14 months 6 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    2   3
2 Timothy 3

1. This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3. Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4. Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11. Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16. ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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Author: GuyKan Posted: 13 months 21 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    0   3
Study to show thyself approved to God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

The key words here are "rightly dividing the word of truth." You are confusing ceremonial law with moral law.

As far as the bible mentioning lesbians, Romans 1:24-26 says

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:"

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Author: RightMind Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   11
In the United States of America, marriage is between one man and one woman, period end of story, quit your damn whining! God this gets old! Marriage, in a civilized society, is held in the regard it is because it is The Building Block, the foundation of the Family which is the most basic and fundemental means of building and maintaining a civilized society.

The proponents of gm scream about denial of civil rights and hate, bullshit! As the law stands now consenting adults are treated as such, the scumbags who disrupt church services and defile the sanctuaries and parishoners the way they do should be prosecuted!

In case after case when people vote it down the idiots just don't get the message, you are free to live and do as you please but the State and its citizens ARE NOT bound by any rational and reasonable logic to grant you ANY state document declaring a legal recognition or sanctioning of a "lifestyle choice"!

Society has THE RIGHT to recognize and encourage its own survival, by reserving the "Seal of the State", for recognition of the cornerstone of that society, The Family.

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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   5
And just how would gay marriage threaten the foundation of the family? What aspects are at risk? What negatives would we see in society? In any country that's legalised gay marriage there have been no negative repercussions.

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Author: RightMind Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   8
Okay, allow me to enlighten you, the assumption seems to be that if a person recognizes marriage to be one man and one woman, then this means that person feels "threatened" by "gay marriage"??? As if this person just needs a group hug from the rest of the "commune" to overcome their irrational fear?? In any event if this is the perception, nothing and I mean nothing could be further from the truth!

If my friend owns a Chevrolet and insists on calling it a Mercedes Benz then I'll remain his friend and feel perfectly safe riding with him and having him drive on the city streets, however when someone else asks me what kind of car my friend drives, I will say "He drives a Chevy", and when he goes to register at the DMV, his registration will say "Chevrolet", unless my friend lies about his VIN ID then he will have a new set of problems with Law Enforcement. Regardless, none of the people or automobiles involved will EVER feel threatened by a Mercedes Benz!

Likewise marriage nor society is "threatened" by the desire of some to "call" something marriage when it is not!

If the people of California think that marriage is between one man/one woman, expressed by their votes, then why is that not respected??

What other countries have done is not of any interest to me!


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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   3
So if nothing is threatened and this change in definition is really very important to some people, why not change the definition?

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Author: RightMind Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   8
No you're missing THE point. The presence or absence of a "threat" is completely meaningless.

The reason a Chevy is called a Chevy, is because it IS A CHEVY! The threat of calling it a Mercedes Toyota or a Ford never NEVER enters into the equation!

Please tell me you GET this! This is not rocket surgery or brain science, if you catch my drift!
Fear or threat simply do not have any role whatsoever in the matter.

Even if by some strange turn of events 50 states officially recognize something other than one man/one woman as marriage, it will never ever change the fact that in this world and this nation, marriage will NEVER be legitamized by the majority of the population, because if its not a marriage, its not a marriage!

Is this any clearer??

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Author: seattle1522 Posted: 15 months 11 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   4
And yet...a Chevy from, say, the 1950s or 1960s doesn't look much like a Chevy today.

What an interesting claim, too, that real "marriage" will never be defined or "legitimized" by the majority of the population. That suggests to me that--in a democracy that respects diverse views and the civil rights of all citizens--gay marriage is as "real" as straight marriage. The fact that a slight majority in CA recently said otherwise is also beside the point. When two people make the same commitment to one another, the STATE (not necessarily your neighbots or your church) should recognize it for everyone (or for no one).

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Author: RightMind Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   8
Excuse me Einstein, that was a typo, I simply neglected to put "gay" before marriage, my point is that gay marriage will never be legitimate.

Now for your MAJOR MALFUNCTIONS which are many but I'll correct your confused assumptions and ignorance!

Of course you missed the point completely in regards to the Chevy. The critical point I made can be highlighted in this instance, in that, a Chevy manufactured in 1950 and one made in 2005, will BOTH be recognized by THE STATE as what? A Chevrolet, no matter how different they look they will NEVER be recognized by THE STATE as FORDS or TOYOTAS! Are you getting this?

Okay, first and for the 935th time to you goofy airheads, THE USA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY! THe US is a, say it with me dufus, A REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC! Good God turn off Katie Couric and THE OPRAH and turn on THE GODFATHER RUSH LIMBAUGH, believe me even YOUR IQ can increase!

Read a little bit of TRUE HISTORY, not the one you learned in a "Government School". Find out why the Founders feared a Democracy! Example, when Benjamin Franklin was asked "What have you given us Mr. Franklin"? He replied, "A REPUBLIC, if you can keep it".

A drivers license is NOT A RIGHT, neither is a MARRIAGE LICENSE a "civil right"! There is no law that prevents any two people from living together as a couple.

I love how you respect the VOTES of the people of California. No one prevents anyone else from submitting an issue to the people for a vote, apparently the majority of Californias' citizens, do not share your opinion as to what The State, "should" recognize.

Finally, even according to some gay people, "gay marriage" is a dead issue!
In large part I think, because even some gays believe that this all started with Adam and Eve, not adam and steve, knowwhuttamean Jellybean????

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   4
Why do Republicans (or are you a "Libertarian") hate democracy so much?

The Founding fathers did not fear a democracy. That is a load of crap. They did fear mob rule, the theoretical "pure" democracy. But this country is founded on the principles of democracy.

This country is a democratic republic.

You right wingers want this to be a republic on the order of the Republic of Iran (a theocracy mixed with a democracy), or the former Republic of Iraq (a dictatorship), or the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or the People's Republic of China. You can go through the list of oppressive countries and find that they all call themselves republics.

What makes America different is our democracy. We are a representative democratic republic. You cannot leave out any of those three words.

But your comments about American democracy and the founding fathers is one of the most devious and deceptive aspects of the right wing propaganda lie.

The American people have spoken. Your attempts to destroy American democracy have failed. Give it up.

Traitor.

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Author: seattle1522 Posted: 15 months 8 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   3
For one of the most thoughtful (if very learned) consideration of the issues in the debate, I highly recommend this article by Richard Just in The New Republic:
http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=82a86351-519b-4333-8171-fb59f94d0c4c

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Author: seattle1522 Posted: 15 months 8 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   3
Oh, I meant to add (to the previous post): the exchange published here also models something sorely lacking from many contemporary discussions of this issue--mutual respect and civil public discourse.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   4
So, would you ban all cars that you call Chevy but the owners call Mercedes? Would you prevent them from driving on the road.

Of course the analogy is ridiculous because no one calls a Chevy a Mercedes.

The real analogy is when someone builds their own car and meets all the safety requirements. Would you ban it from the road because it is not manufactured in Detroit?

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Author: RightMind Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   6
ts you are hopeless! Of course as usual you present NOTHING to support your idiot ass non-point, just gibberish! You are no where near a valid point, familiar territory for you though!

Oh well, the Chevy that an owner chooses to "call" a Mercedes, would be recognized by who?, THE STATE dumbass, AS A CHEVY, it would never, are you listening shithead? NEVER LEGALLY be titled or licensed as a Mercedes!

A "Marriage License" IS THE STATES ie THE GOVERNMENTS, official recognition of a contract of marriage, NOT A CHURCH, THE STATE!

If someone builds a car, they are constructing a private conveyance and if the state clears it for the road, so be it! You have made NO POINT, no surprise!

By the way TURDBRAIN, you made my point after all GENIUS! " Of course the analogy is RIDICULOUS because no one calls a Chevy a Mercedes, DUH! "What did he win Johnny"?? He won a free can of "PullYourHeadOutchoAss"!!

Why? Because a Chevy is a Chevy and nothing else is a Chevy! Just as Marriage is One Man One Woman, and will never be anything else, even a Mercedes!

DISMISSED NUMBNUTS!

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   3
Do you eat pork or lobster? Should John McCain be put to death for adultery?

Actually, in several states of America, marriage is between two consenting adults.

And you are terribly ignorant of human sexual history. Monogamy is not the foundation of civilization. Historically most cultures have been polygamous. That does not mean they should always, be, but that is a fact.


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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    10   5
A general note to everyone who has equated gay marriage to incest, bestiality, drugs, and anything else of that nature:

These are some of the most ludicrous, inane, nonsensical arguments I have ever heard. Can you not find a way to dispute gay marriage that is somehow based in reality?

You call being gay a sexual perversion, but how can allowing people to share a loving life together on the same level as everyone else be perverted. The sex is different but anyone who has ever been in a relationship will tell you sex is certainly not the only aspect. And there are many straight couples who regularly have anal sex and do not intend on having children. What about them?

You don't explain the connection between how allowing gay marriage will lead to people marrying their pets. Or how being gay is equivalent to selling drugs. People give giving these analogies but there is no substance to them.

Give me ONE example of how being gay has ever caused any negativity, other than as a result of others' homophobia. And no being a sin doesn't count because a lot of people don't believe in that archaic system of morals. Worshipping other gods is a sin according to Chrisianity, but you allow Hindus and Muslims and Satanists and Sikhs and Buddists to get married.

Explain to me how this is not discrimination, how it is not a human rights issue. And don't just say it's different than the civil rights movement, tell me HOW it's different from the civil rights movement and how the difference infers that gay people should not be allowed to marry, whereas black people should be allowed equal rights. Tell my WHY they are different things.

Someone for the love of god explain this rationale to me becuse I am sick and tired of hearing the same unsuported spew of canned answers. And before you go off and say "Well the liberals spew off canned answers too..." I KNOW THAT. Obviously they do and those arguments are not better than yours, but that does not answer the question.

Come to think of it while you're at it why don't you tell me exactly how gay marriage threatens children and threatens straight marriage, because I tell ya in Canada where gay marriage is legal (Marriage mind you, not a civil union), all the straight marriages and kids seem just fine to me.

Seriously, somebody lay it down for me.

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Author: Pabar Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    11   8
To deny any human, any civil right that others enjoy and take for granted is WRONG. This is America, Freedom and Justice for ALL rings hollow unless you allow ALL to enjoy those freedoms and justice. I don't see anywhere in our Constitution the words " as lomg as you are not gay, or not black, or not female, or not fat, or not Jewish or ETC, ETC, ETC.........To deny anyone their freedom IS unamerican. PLEASE leave God out if this, to assume YOU know the will of God, IF he/her/it exists is Arrogant and presumptuous.

PLEASE tell me HOW this can threaten children or your marriage?????? More Neocon fear mogering....

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Author: Bitterwon Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   11
Your use of as long as you are not gay, or not black, or not female, or not fat, or not Jewish...is bologna. You use this excuse in a time that is much different than the 1800's. This is what people do to make people feel sorry for them. You seem like the type of person that thinks its alright to let anybody marry anything or anyone. Why don't we let people marry animals while we are at it. The people in California voted against it. Let their vote stand whether its right or wrong they voted and let their voice be heard. All of you complained when Bush won the election and said your vote was stolen. It seems like every time the vote is not in your favor you people complain and hit old lady's. Not everything goes my way either but I don't hit and make a public stink I live with it because that is democracy. You obviously don't understand what America is about. We vote to see what the people want and if the majority wins than so be it. It is the best system there is...unless you like a Monarchy or communist government, and if you do than move to China or Saudi Arabia. Don't call us unamerican because we disagree with you. It threatens children in an already mixed culture that confuses children because people like you think we should teach our kids what we don't believe in. We all raise our kids the way we were raised and that is how all of us do it. Come up with a different argument this one is bad and one sided. Gay people should have civil unions that is fair...but the gay community want to start a civil rights argument that isn't even close to the civil rights movement. They are American citizens and should use the same process we all use...Democracy. I never thought I would see a black president in my time but I was wrong. Give it time and wait. Good things come in time. you are not the only ones in this country that is discriminated...How about the Native Americans. Gay Marriage seems like a lesser discussion when it comes to them and what America has done and is still doing to them.We waste our time worrying about little things and stop focusing on the things that really matter. Why?

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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   4
It may be a little thing to you, but to many its very important. And if it is such a little deal then why do you oppose it so strongly.

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Author: Bitterwon Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   7
Because I have the right to my opinion. But you would probably like to take that from me cause I oppose gay marriage.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 10 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   3
There are no laws proposed to ban you from holding your prejudices.

But you propose laws to deny freedom to those with whom you disagree.

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Author: dawn Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   10
Pabar--You say ALL citizens should enjoy their freedoms. I'm sure people who sell drugs think there's no harm done--just another American product, that some Americans want, to buy & sell. I don't see it their way, are their freedoms being denied? And some people have the notion that taking from the rich & giving to their poor selves is noble & just---I, & some others would call it theft. Some would love to be able to marry their own Mom, or Dad, or brother, sister, son, daughter. Why not?--its their right & not hurting anyone, nobodies business. Some would call this incest. In a society there HAS to be some common rules, foundations---or else ANYTHING will be ok in each persons own mind----If we had this TRUE freedom, then we would have complete lawlessness. Who could say what is right, wrong, just??? It would all be the individuals' idea of what is fair & acceptable. And who is anyone else to challange---their freedoms & justice would be trampled upon. And leaving God out of it is just what WILL bring about total chaos & lawlessness.

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Author: Bitterwon Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    10   7
Gay pride parades and gay marriage. My brother is gay and I don't hate him for it but what is the need for all of this. We have to draw the line somewhere. Should we let Brother and Sisters marry? How about a man with ten wives. The standard has already been set let it be. I don't fear change but I do not like it when people try to change centuries old traditions. give them civil unions they at least deserve that. The church should not have to change their beliefs to make a group happy. Seems like when people don't get their way they make a public stink and drag everyone into it. Why should we change for them will they change for us? This is a very heated debate and frankly will never be settled.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   9
"Gay pride parades and gay marriage. My brother is gay and I don't hate him for it but what is the need for all of this. "

Yeah, and let's get rid of that damn St Patricks' Day while we are at it. Why should the Irish be proud? And what is all this Christmas crap. Why should we promote a religion based on illegitimate birth? And forget about Easter, why should the government sanction a parade about torture, death and pagan fertility rites? What is that all about?

Aren't you just sick of people expressing pride in themselves if they aren't like us?

Of course there is a word for this point of view.

It is called bigotry.

By the way, no one is asking any church to change anything. In fact, these laws banning gay marriage are an attack on those churches who may want to sanction gay marriages.

I guess you support allowing government to be able to tell churches what they may and may not do. I find that to be a very dangerous and unconstitutional precedent.

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Author: Bitterwon Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   8
You are an idiot and make stupid comments. Where's my Heterosexual pride parade? Can I go through the streets and let my balls hang out so kids can see it? Its ignorant and ridiculous. When someone illustrates something you attack it. I don't hate gay people I hate the fact that they want to shove down our throats...their way of life. So what your gay do you want a medal? Tampa you are a jackass that just wants to start shit. So we don't agree with you...I guess I will just have to wear your bigot badge of shame. The gay community already has attacked church people. A little old lady leaving her Mormon Church...that takes a special kind of person to pick on an old lady. If I was there I would have broke that pricks nose. Not for being gay but for hitting an elderly woman.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 9 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   5
You have the right to march. The Klan marches in parts of Georgia every year.

But I would not want any children to see it. In fact I would rather have my kids see gay balls than some racist in a sheet.

But I am not trying to force you to marry another person of the same sex. I am not trying to force or prevent you from doing or believing anything at all.

But you are preventing people who love one another from sanctifying their love and calling it a marriage. What do you care what they call their relationship?

Assholes like John McCain, Newt Gingrich and John Edwards have done far more damage to the institution of marriage than any of the thousands of gay marriages.

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Author: uzurnoodle Posted: 15 months 2 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   3
Don't forget Bill Clinton on your list of poster children for crapy marriage.

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Author: dawn Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    11   12
It threatens a relationship with God. And that's the most important relationship in life. Second would be children. It's bad enough to be living an openly, unashamed life of sin--but teaching this to children is an even greater offense. No hate intended. I'd say the same for murder, theft, abuse, etc...--any sin one lives & passes on to the children. For those that say they don't believe in God, I guess this doesn't apply to you. You'll do whatever you want & not care about the consequences to yourselves or others.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    10   11
What an awful God you must believe in.

I believe in a God who loves everyone and does not judge people on things like sexual orientation.

Even if you must rely on something like the Bible for an external authority, there is nothing in the Bible that is very clear about homosexuality unless you are very selective about what you want to consider sin and not sin.

Do you feel the same about people who eat pork or shellfish? The Bible is much clearer on those than it is on homosexuality.

You know you have options. You do not have to belong to a church that preaches hate and fear.

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Author: dawn Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   10
Tampa---I do not hate or fear anyone, & am not taught to do so.

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Author: hypnosis44 Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   10
Your nose is growing! What would Jesus or whoever say?

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Author: chuchee Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   6
Jesus would say , avoid sin.....Regardless of whether you agree or not she is correct...you can love the person and not the sin.....The Bible is specific and if you claim to believe then you must beleve in all of it not just pick and choose...Jesus says love on another, he didn't say accept it if the majority approves.... or it its the fashionable, popular thing to do..........I have realitives that are gay and I love them but don't agree witheir life style....One in particular says he regrets some of the choices he's made......If my son breaks a law , I let him know he was wrong, but love him no less only his offense is offensive......

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   4
"you must beleve in all of it not just pick and choose"

So you don't eat pork or shellfish. How many of your daughters have you sold into slavery? You have never touched a football, which is made from pigskin?

All of these are explicitly mentioned in the same sections that only indirectly deal with homosexuality.

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Author: jdbenner Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   6
TampaSurvey, what do you mean by “indirectly deal with homosexuality”?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Please explain your self.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   5
You believe in a God who singles out people based on their sexual orientation, but not on their hypocrisy. Your beliefs teach you to treat people with hate, even while they teach you to deny it in your heart. So, you condemn people you love. Great. That god can go to hell in my opinion, but he does not have far to go.

I believe in a God that loves all people and condemns no one.

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Author: chuchee Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   6
Its apparent you don't want to accept what I Corinthians was stating........No one on this survey or this specific chain of comments has said anything about Hating...you have decided you are absolutely correct disregarding what the Bible states so the debate on this subject with You is useless....The people we LOVE, choose to condem themselves by the choices they've made and we still love them , but not their choice....this is no different than us supporting our soliders fighting the war in Irag ,but we don't support the war .... the homosexuals we love their sin we hate....

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Author: INAJRB Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   3
Tampa....Actually it does say in the bible that a man should not lay with another man as he would a woman, but it does not say anything about two women. So, if one would follow the bible, it's okay for women to be gay, but not men.

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Author: dawn Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   6
INAJRB--About women, the Bible speaks of this also. Romans 1:26.

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Author: zootownwerewolf Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   4
Wouldn't you say dawn that quite a few sins threaten a relationship with God as well. Ones that are written about a lot more in the Bible.

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Author: dawn Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    4   7
zootown--Of course, as I mentioned, sin, all kinds, threatens a persons' relationship with God. We're to turn from sin.

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Author: ooblygoobly Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   9
Couldn't have said it better. Thank You. I would add, for those who say they don't believe in God, it's not too late. You are forgiven by Jesus already, but you do have to ask and confess it....

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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    8   6
That's a pretty close minded thing to say about people who don't believe in god. You make it sound like your belief structure is the only reason you do anything moral. To imply that gay marriage is even in the same ballpark as murder, theft and abuse is ridiculous. Just because it is in your moral compass doesn't mean its that way in everyone's. And those of us who have no problem with gay marriage or adoption aren't devoid of your other morals, and we certainly worry about consequences. Like the consequences of not giving a group of people the same social and economic right as others have, just because it disagrees with a religious belief.

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Author: chuchee Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   5
There are no degrees in sin...or no big sin and little sin...that is a misconception, I have never read wheresin is rated on a scale of 1-10...We as people consider one more heinous than the other....Murder is awful but so is adultery and fornication in Gods eyes....Abusing your wife verbally is just as intolerable as lying to your children ...about anything.....even Santa Claus...I can't spek for others but as a christian I choose to behave according to Gods command cause it is just as easy as not, because it I love doing it...Moral and living by Gods command aren't one and the same....your relationship with God is the difference......If you worry about conseguences, whose conseq are you concerned about....the law, mans perspective of you , Gods commands to you....which? They are differnt results.....

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Author: robotree Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   5
So if children dishonour their parents, as is mentioned is a sin in the Bible, or become jealous of their friend's new corvette, they might as well drive a bus load of orphans into a nuclear reactor? And what about somebody who has only commited murder once, but otherwise been top notch sin-wise, vs a nurse who spends her days saving lives, but has a whole bunch of premarital sex with her boyfriend? Is she worse simply because of volume?

But that is beside the point. Marriage is not by nature a Chrisian concept. The proof of this is that a couple can be married by a judge. So that just leaves the economic implications and the social factor. What do you care if a gay couple is married by a judge and doesn't even go near a church?

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 13 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   4
Not just that. She assumes that anyone who supports gays must not believe in God. I find that terribly offensive.

Self-righteousness, in my experience, does more to separate one from God than homosexuality.

It is incredible to me that people who believe in torture can actually hold themselves above people who are attracted to others of the same gender.


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Author: chuchee Posted: 15 months 12 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   6
Your assumption is incorrect......What do you imply by support?....Self righteous , no one except you stated anything about self righteousness....I don't agree with toture either , so apparently you're speaking of someone else....I'm afraid you won't be able to fit me in a box on what an average individual that claims a relationship with God.....sounds like you're doing what you claim most repub do.....limit, scrutinize and criticize by stereotyping.....

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Author: bara06 Posted: 15 months 15 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    5   4
Its a combination of many things.

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Author: gabewest Posted: 15 months 15 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   8
Measured Voices Provide Reason, Support Amidst Proposition 8 Reaction

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SALT LAKE CITY 21 November 2008 Following the passing of Proposition 8 in California, the Church released statements urging civility and reaffirming its position on the issue. The Church also noted that two Roman Catholic bishops released statements decrying religious bigotry against Mormons. The Church today points to additional third-party voices that provide useful insights into the reaction following the vote. Some of these individuals supported Proposition 8, and some were against it.

These materials may be helpful to the news media, bloggers, Church members and the general public in gaining a broader view of the aftermath of the Proposition 8 vote. All people of faith have cause for concern when others try to remove their legitimate voice from the public square.



U.S. Catholic Bishops Offer Support to Mormons Targeted for Defending Marriage, Backing California's Proposition Eight

“The U.S. bishops offered "prayerful support and steadfast solidarity" to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints in the face of attacks on the church and its members for working to pass California's Proposition 8, which bans same-sex marriage. The support was offered in a November 21 letter from Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz, chairman of the bishops' Ad Hoc Committee for the Defense of Marriage, to Thomas S. Monson, president of the Mormon Church.”



Anti-Defamation League Condemns Criminal Activity Targeting Religious Institutions That Supported Proposition 8

"Although we strongly opposed Proposition 8, its passage does not justify the defacement and destruction of property. We urge Californians to channel their frustration and disappointment in productive and responsible ways to work towards full equality for all Americans. To place anyone in fear of threat to their houses of worship or their personal security because they have expressed deeply held religious views is contrary to everything this nation represents. Our Constitution's First Amendment protects freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of religion for all of us."



Dallas Morning News Editorial: Protest and Civility in a Democracy

“But a vicious minority is not satisfied with that. Some gay rights protesters have voiced sentiments about Mormons, whose church was active in advocating Prop 8's passage, that if said about gays would be condemned as hate speech. Vandals have struck a number of Mormon temples. Bash Back, a pro-gay group in Olympia, Wash., trashed a Mormon temple there, then issued a statement saying, ‘Let this be a warning to the Mormon church: Dissolve completely or be destroyed.’

“Gay rights extremists should ask themselves the same question. A cause, no matter how just, can only be harmed by thuggish tactics. Our pluralist democracy depends on a citizenry committed to working out differences with civility.”



Michael Barber, Professor of Theology, Scripture & Christian Thought at John Paul the Great Catholic University

“… we found it appalling that in the final days of the campaign, opponents of Proposition 8 ran an ad in which Mormon missionaries were presented as barging into a same-sex couple’s home, gleefully rummaging through their personal possessions and violating their rights. The ad attempted to ridicule people of the Mormon faith, even implying that it was wrong that they contributed money to the election. As a Catholic school, we stand beside our friends in the Mormon Church and of people of faith who work tirelessly to preserve the freedom of religion in America. We also strongly oppose any attempt to ridicule another person’s faith, even faiths with which we have strong historical and theological disagreements.”



The National Review: Legislating Immorality

"To date, 30 states have voted on initiatives addressing same-sex marriage, and in every state traditional marriage has come out on top. But somehow the fact that Mormons got involved during the latest statewide referendum constitutes a bridge too far? In truth, Mormons are a target of convenience in the opening salvo of what is sure to be a full-scale assault on much of America’s religious infrastructure, which gay activists perceive as a barrier to their aspirations. Among religious groups, Mormons are not the biggest obstacle to same-sex marriage — not by a long shot. But they are an easy target. Anti-Mormon bigotry is unfortunately common, and gay-rights activists are cynically exploiting that fact."



The First Amendment Center — Charles Haynes: When the Marriage Debate Turns Ugly, No One Wins

“Mormons are taking the biggest hit from the opposition. But as protests, boycotts and blacklists targeting Mormons proliferate, it’s worth pausing to think about where this collision is headed. … Before this clash escalates further, both sides should exercise caution and reconsider their battle plans going forward.”



The Christian Post — Chuck Colson: So Much for Tolerance

“Two days after the election, 2,000 homosexual protesters surrounded a Mormon temple in Los Angeles chanting ‘Mormon scum.’ Protesters picketed Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, holding signs reading ‘Purpose-Driven Hate.’ Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills was spray painted. Church members’ cars have been vandalized, and at least two Christians were assaulted. Protesters even hurled racial epithets at African-Americans because African-Americans voted overwhelmingly in favor of traditional marriage. What hypocrisy from those who spend all of their time preaching tolerance to the rest of us!”



Beliefnet.com — Rod Dreher: Stand By the Mormons

“Now is the time for traditional Christians — Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox — to come to the aid of our Mormon friends. They put themselves on the front line of the traditional marriage battle like no other church group. And now individual Mormons are paying a terrible price for standing up for something we all believe in. I don't know how we can stand with them from afar, but at least we can thank them, and speak out when we see them being abused. We might also think again about how we view them. … I have deep disagreements with Mormon theology. But they are our friends and allies and fellow citizens, and they deserve our thanks and support.”



John Mark Reynolds, Philosophy Professor at Biola University – California and Thank-a-Mormon Day

“In the battle for the family, however, traditional Christians have no better friends than the Mormon faithful. It would be wrong if that support were taken for granted. We are intolerant of the false attacks on Mormon faith and family. We stand with our Mormon friends in their right to express their views on the public square. We celebrate the areas, such as family values, where we agree. A heart felt thank you may not win points from other friends who demand one hundred percent agreement from their allies, but it is the decent and proper thing to do. Thank you to our Mormon friends and allies!”



The Volokh Conspiracy — Dale Carpenter: An Alternative to Anti-Mormon Protests

“Here's my advice to righteously furious gay-marriage supporters: Stop the focus on the Mormon Church. Stop it now. We just lost a ballot fight in which we were falsely but effectively portrayed as attacking religion. So now some of us attack a religion? People were warned that churches would lose their tax-exempt status, which was untrue. So now we have (frivolous) calls for the Mormon Church to lose its tax-exempt status? It's rather selective indignation, anyway, since lots of demographic groups gave us Prop 8 in different ways — some with money and others with votes. I understand the frustration, but this particular expression of it is wrong and counter-productive.”


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Author: zootownwerewolf Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    6   4
Yes it is okay to blame the Mormons for prop 8 hate bill that they funded in an adjacent state and promoted. Especially when the Mormon Church participates unashamedly in poligamy, which some say offends the tradition of marriage.
These are peoples lives your messing with, they're going to be pissed off and why not leave a note on your door. That's what Martin Luther did to Catholicism when he saw it full of greed and hate.

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Author: gabewest Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    3   6
no it's not okay to blame the mormons this is wrong

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Author: ftplusdd Posted: 15 months 15 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    9   7
Everything I believe in.

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Author: TampaSurvey Posted: 15 months 14 days ago
Author's vote: Rate comment    7   6
Everything you believe in is based on being anti-gay?

Thank God I don't go to your church.

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